Talk:Rumi

Request to Reinstate Rumi's Persian Ethnocultural Identity

I want to bring attention to the fact that Rumi is widely recognized as a Persian poet and mystic in numerous academic sources. Removing his Persian identity from this page seems highly questionable and contradicts established scholarly consensus. Given the importance of this aspect of Rumi’s heritage, any removal of such references raises concerns about bias or misinformation. I request that the users who are preventing the accurate representation of Rumi’s Persian heritage be thoroughly investigated. Let's maintain the integrity of the content and be fair to the historical and cultural significance of such figures.

Semi-protected edit request on 9 November 2024

http://www.spanglefish.com/maulana/

Jalal ad-Din Muhammad Rumi, also known simply as Rumi, is a 13th-century poet and mystic who is often claimed by both Afghanistan and Iran.

Rumi was born in 1207 in the city of Balkh, which was part of the historical Khorasan region. Today, Balkh is within the borders of modern Afghanistan. Because of this, Afghans see Rumi as part of their cultural and historical heritage. Rumi’s birthplace in Afghanistan and the cultural influences from his early years in Balkh are fundamental reasons that Afghans consider him Afghan.

Rumi’s cultural identity also reflects the Persian language, as he wrote in Persian, a language historically shared by many regions, including present-day Afghanistan and Iran. However, his poetry and teachings draw from the traditions, culture, and spirituality of the entire Khorasan region, which included Afghanistan at that time. This shared heritage has led people from various countries to claim Rumi as their own, but from a geographical and historical standpoint, many see his birthplace in Balkh as a key reason to view him as Afghan.

Rumi's nationality

Regarding the importance of the article on Rumi, it is a mistake that his nationality is represented as the Khwarezmian Empire and the Sultanate of Rum. A specific government or kingdom is not a nationality, and we have no one identified as "Khwarezmian" (from the Khwarezmian Empire) or "Sultanate of Rumian." His infobox needs to be accurate and based on reliable sources and references, as well as logic. The current phrase does not meet these criteria. I have added more than 7 reliable sources from university-published books and professors from U.S. universities in fields such as Islamology, Iranology, and Orientalism. Additionally, basic knowledge and logic support that the Khwarezmian Empire and Sultanate of Rum are not nationalities. If his nationality should not be labeled in the opening paragraph or infobox, then the nationality section should be removed entirely, rather than presenting inaccurate information. Taha Danesh (talk) 18:55, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Not Mevlevi

the Mevlevi order was established after Rumi's death. He cannot be a Mevlevi just as Jesus is not a member of the Christian church. Bostonglobestrangler (talk) 09:16, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Rumi's Persian Ethnocultural Identity and nationality

Rumi's poems are mostly written in Persian (Farsi), and he was born into a Persian family. He was born in Balkh, so why is he introduced as a "poet and Hanafi faqih" rather than a "Persian poet and..."? MaryamSafariIran (talk) 19:38, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

I don't have a problem with that. Other Persian poets have that in the lead, so I don't see why not. There may be previous discussions about this but I haven't looked that deep. Pyrrho the Skipper (talk) 19:55, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request for clarification of Rumi’s Ethnic Identity

Labeling Rumi as simply "Persian" is a misrepresentation of historical reality. While he belonged to the Persian-speaking world, Rumi was not ethnically Persian but a Tajik, a people who have historically inhabited Balkh and northern Afghanistan. There are no distinct Persian ethnic groups in Afghanistan, and conflating Persian as a cultural sphere with Persian as an ethnicity distorts the truth. This issue goes beyond Rumi. Many prominent figures from Afghanistan and Central Asia, such as Avicenna, are frequently categorized as Persian, despite their clear Tajik heritage. While "Persian" can describe a linguistic or cultural identity, it does not override ethnic and regional origins. Tajiks, both in Afghanistan and Tajikistan, are Persian-speaking but are a distinct Iranic people, separate from ethnic Persians. There is no need to contradict established scholarly consensus that places Rumi within the Persianate world. However, historical accuracy demands that this article include a section addressing the national and ethnic claims over his identity. Iran, Afghanistan, and Tajikistan all recognize him as part of their heritage, but the truth must be presented as it is, Rumi was a Tajik from Balkh, not an ethnic Persian. His identity should be acknowledged with accuracy, not generalized under a broad label that erases his roots.

Some argue that Rumi is widely recognized as a Persian poet and mystic in academic sources and that removing this label contradicts established scholarship. However, this perspective overlooks the distinction between cultural association and ethnic identity. While Rumi was undeniably part of the Persian literary and cultural world, this does not equate to him being ethnically Persian. Calling him solely Persian without clarifying his Tajik identity is misleading and excludes essential historical context.

Furthermore, concerns about "removing" Rumi's Persian identity are misplaced, the goal is not to erase his connection to Persian culture but to ensure his Tajik origins are equally acknowledged. Presenting only one side of the discussion distorts historical accuracy and fuels nationalistic narratives that overlook the ethnic and regional realities of Rumi’s time. Including a dedicated section on the competing claims over his identity is not only fair but necessary to uphold scholarly integrity. Jawanshir Razi (talk) 13:23, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

Identities are based on the language the people primarily spoke or wrote, not an ethnicities. Ethnic identities are not reliable. VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 13:41, 19 February 2025 (UTC)